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Post by Admin on Nov 11, 2012 19:51:28 GMT -6
This is not a Ship War thread. Just tell your reasons why you prefer Zutara, and try to be a civil as you can.
Is there a reason why you prefer Zutara over the canon Kataang? What does Zutara have that Kataang lacks?
Rules
1. No character bashing. Period.
2. No pairing bashing. This includes calling pairings morally corrupt, sick, disturbed, stupid, or wrong in general.
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Post by makosymptoms on Nov 11, 2012 20:00:21 GMT -6
I rarely give in my input so... Kataang; Honestly.. I couldn't see them together at all. Just over the three seasons, I saw Katara as a mother figure to Aang. I didn't see any built up for them at all expect Aang having a crush on her and stealing kisses. Katara was confused about her feelings overall and all of a sudden, they are endgame? Uh... what just happen?
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Post by peachyju on Nov 11, 2012 20:02:16 GMT -6
Oh, I like this discussion.
I, personally, support both the canon Kataang and fantastic hot hot hot Zutara.
But Kataang, even though canon, for me is way more imaginary than Zutara. Basically the series itself provides lots of development, approaching and proof and sweet scenes to support Zutara. Katara and Aang do deeply care for each other in the series - that much is evident - but on her part it never gets romantic. She seems more bothered or annoyed about his romantic interest up until the very last episode.
So for Kataang to work out, a lot of stuff that happens afterwards has to happen. I IN WAY agree with how it went in those comic books (The Promise) btw. They'd never be SUDDENLY in a super close intimate relationship out of thin air! Until the last episode of AtlA, they seem like family!
All the romantic, sexually tense, indicative, chemical scenes that DID happen between Zutara in the series would still have to happen between Kataang for it to become a full fledged romantic relationship. They're close friends, but they don't make each other go giggity! Aang does, but FOR NO SPECIFIC REASON, and Katara does not!
So I see Zutara as a relationship with all the physical, chemical part - ahem passion and sexual tension and interest, and all the emotional and serious part too - the acquired trust and intimacy - by the end of AtlA. By the end of AtlA, the friendship between Katara and Aang is the strongest, obviously. But it has no real romantic edge to it.
That's my opinion on it! I like putting my imagination to work on the aftermath to the series though, so I got headcanons that go both ways!
Shipping makes me happy <3
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vassilissa
Non-Bender
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Posts: 40
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Post by vassilissa on Nov 12, 2012 10:21:32 GMT -6
To be honest there's no really Kataang VS Zutara in my mind. I don't like how the avatar staff writes their pairings,I'm not really a fan of the concept love at first sight which they SEEM very fond of. So yeah,I'm so very glad Zutara is not canon,because clearly they have their ideas about how relationships are and start,ideas I don't really find interesting to watch. And this goes without even analyzing Kataang in particular,but just giving an opinion about Atla and LoK. About the topic in here,well,I have re-watched the series multiple times because I wanted to really see if Katara's decision could seem less random to me.Unfortunately it wasn't. And not because I think she should have been with Zuko,but because they completely left out a part in which we could see her feelings blossom naturally.A scene written decently after her rejection could have done the trick,but it never happened.
So she came out like his mum 95% of the series for me. And if I'm not wrong Aang called her mum(?).The rest 5% came off as awkward and a bit forced. I never even really doubted she was not going to end up with Aang,I always knew it,but one thing is saying,hey,I can see why it happened although I didn't like it another thing is leaving me saying I think it only happened because Aang was the protagonist and by definition he could have not ended up alone. I'm glad this worked for some people,but for me it didn't. That's it.
Bless the fandom and its works!
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Post by advocaat on Nov 12, 2012 11:20:08 GMT -6
I tried to like Kataang the first time watching the series. I love Aang and thought he was super fun and adorable, so I was rooting for him during the first part of the series. However, when I saw Zuko and Katara in CoD, I thought, "Now there's an exciting prospect." I didn't let myself ship Zuko and Katara at the time, because I knew it would never be endgame and I didn't want to disappoint myself, but the Kataang ending just did nothing for me. All I thought during the last scene was, "Aww, Aang got to be with Katara after all. That's cute, I guess." I'd been hoping for a better romance, but I chalked it up to the fact that romances in American cartoons tend to be less satisfying in general. There's a lot more focus on 'now you're my boyfriend/girlfriend' and not very much 'here's how we got there'.
I got bored of Kataang fanfiction after one story, so I left the series alone for several months. Then one day, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to read a Zuko/Katara story and see what that fanbase is like" and that sealed the deal. All of the wonderful development and romantic potential that Kataang lacked, Zutara had in abundance. I decided to watch the series again and pay attention to the interaction between Zuko and Katara, and I only fell more in love with them. I was really excited when I found out how huge the Zutara fanbase was, because it meant I could indulge and know there were people who felt the same way I did keeping it alive.
There's just no oomph in Kataang. Aang is twelve and prepubescent, and Katara shows very little romantic interest in him during the course of the show. As vassilissa said, the show left out a part in which we could Katara's feelings blossom naturally. It was just, boom! Together now! Hero got the girl, we can all go home now.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 12, 2012 12:17:21 GMT -6
I'm probably in the minority here, but I like Kataang. However, I just didn't see Kataang realistically being romantically viable during the series. I could see it when they're in their twenties or even late teens because, as we see, Aang does turn into quite the handsome man (not as hot a Zuko, but, hey, he's Zuko!). But at 12 and 14 it just seemed contrived for Katara to suddenly go from treating Aang like a younger brother to a romantic interest, and that has nothing to do with my feelings towards Zuko. I would have felt the same if Zuko was much older and not remotely a potential romantic interest for Katara. One thing for sure is that I'm glad Kataang happened because holy hell are their children (and grandchildren) amazing! And now that Aang is, unfortunately, passed on, I hope to see some cute moments between besties old!Katara and Zuko. But no matter the canon, the real fun, as we all know, is in the fanon. Some of the best stories are found in fanfiction, so I'm glad that Zutara owns that - both fanfiction and fanart.
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Post by kathrynlacey on Nov 12, 2012 14:12:01 GMT -6
I agree with advocaat. There just... isn't any "oomph" to Kataang. And now that Aang is, unfortunately, passed on, I hope to see some cute moments between besties old!Katara and Zuko. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think Katara and Zuko are besties at all. I watched the Sozin's Comet episodes with the commentary, and Bryan Konietzko specifically said that that final scene where they're looking at Azula in all of her sad, angry, crazy was where their story together ends, and the Promise didn't negate that in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if Katara isn't even a part of the Search at all which sucks because Zuko needs all of the emotional support he can get, and Katara is the only one who can give him that properly. Anyway, I already said this in the Fan Club, but the thing I like best about Zutara over Kataang is that they can accept all aspects of each other, no matter what. I get that Aang has lost his entire people, his mentor (who was as close to a father as he could get), and basically his culture, but he was raised as a monk. He was raised to let go of anger and rage, to never give into the desire for vengeance and revenge. He can't even accept those feelings in himself, and he proved that he couldn't accept them in Katara, either, in the Southern Raiders. Zuko, on the other hand, can accept those feelings in Katara. If Aang had seen Katara bloodbend on purpose, I don't know that he ever would have fully accepted her after that. I think he would have still loved her and tried to make it work, but I feel like there would always be that piece of him that was just... not okay with it. Whereas Zuko proved straightaway that he could accept it. He saw her bloodbend, and he was shocked, but he immediately accepted it and helped her. Second, there was that whole thing in the Promise (we are considering this canon despite the writers pretty much wiping out a whole shit-load of character development that happened in the series, right?) where Katara felt excluded and jealous over those fan girls of Aang's. She couldn't even really talk to him about it because just the idea that he was so happy made her feel like a terrible person. WTF? I get that he was happy, but if someone is even a little upset, they need to talk about it in a relationship. Without proper communication, there's no fixing anything. Katara would have felt so much better if she'd just... said something about it instead of acting like she hadn't been upset at all. She essentially lied to him about her feelings after she always tries to get people to talk to her. I feel like she knew Aang just wouldn't understand or it would only serve to upset him instead of having them really talk it out, no matter how much it's the Avatar's job to be peaceful and all that. I feel like she would have been able to talk to Zuko because he's felt intense jealousy, and he would get it. They seemed pretty able to communicate both verbally and non-verbally with each other, and Zuko could always talk to Katara about his fears, and she would listen. Granted, she always was able to talk to Aang about his fears, worries, and aches, too, but Aang could do that with just about anyone. Zuko really only had Katara because even Mai, his own girlfriend, had trouble handling his emotions. There's so much acceptance in Zutara of which there isn't enough in Kataang.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 12, 2012 14:45:45 GMT -6
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think Katara and Zuko are besties at all. I watched the Sozin's Comet episodes with the commentary, and Bryan Konietzko specifically said that that final scene where they're looking at Azula in all of her sad, angry, crazy was where their story together ends, and the Promise didn't negate that in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if Katara isn't even a part of the Search at all which sucks because Zuko needs all of the emotional support he can get, and Katara is the only one who can give him that properly. I don't see any reason why they still can't be friends, even if the events of The Promise are canon. The Promise is still several decades in the past at the opening of Korra's story. You can't expect eighty-year-olds to still act like teenagers. They're older now. Zuko's statue is in RC; he and Aang built RC together. I don't see Katara and Zuko being indifferent towards one another at this point in time since, so far, they are the only two original members confirmed to be alive, and especially with Bumi being a United Forces commander who works closely with Iroh II. Iroh II, who is a lot like his grandfather, and who seems to have a great respect for Bumi, probably wouldn't feel this way if he didn't know the man personally. Zuko is most likely one of the few friends that Katara claims to be alive. So my bubble is not burst, especially since I don't honestly care if Katara joined Zuko in the search for his mother.
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Post by kathrynlacey on Nov 12, 2012 15:31:15 GMT -6
Oh, I agree that they can still be friends, but based on what Bryan Konietzko said and how he said it, I feel like they never intended for Katara and Zuko to be close after taking down Azula. It's really disappointing for me, as a fan and a Zutara shipper. I mean, I could at least understand if they remained best friends or something, but I don't see that happening.
Also, with the fact that Katara pretty much stays in the Southern Water Tribe, and Zuko is just traveling around the world, I think that being best friends would be hard to maintain. Furthermore, it's really tricky to remain close to people as you age. While I'm still friends with the people who were my best friends when I was fourteen - sixteen, they're not my best friends any more. They have other people to call their best friends, and I'm just content that I still have their friendships at all. When you don't live in the same city/state/country, it's really hard to maintain friendships, especially since this is all pre-internet.
While I'm sure they're still friends, I don't imagine they're close at all. It's sad, but if you think about it logically, that's probably the way it is, regardless of the fact that they have relatives who are both in the United Forces.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 12, 2012 15:45:30 GMT -6
You'd be surprised how strong a bond can last, even when you rarely see that person. That bond especially tends to become stronger and that much more precious when you're old (and, no, I don't mean in your 20s or 30s - lol). I think of my grandfather, who rarely sees his war buddies; but when they get together every few years it's almost as if no time has passed. When you go through such adversity with someone, especially during a war, those bonds do not break that easily, despite the time and distance put between you. I can't help but be reminded of a verse from "Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)": Zuko and Katara may not be 'besties', as I put it, but I have a feeling that they are friends who still share a strong bond. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
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