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Zuko FC
Nov 11, 2012 14:53:34 GMT -6
Post by manzanasverdes on Nov 11, 2012 14:53:34 GMT -6
May I join the party too?
My favorite Zuko moment, I guess would have to be when he's serving tea for the gang around a campfire, I think it was at the end of TFM, when he tries his uncle's joke but doesn't remember it properly and winds up botching it gloriously, because he was just so relaxed there, offering tea (which he brewed himself) to these kids he didn't need to be 'making friends with' because he was there to train Aang and help end the war, and yet here he was, showing such a soft (and awkward) underbelly to them, collaborating and just giving them a bit of him, all because he could and wanted to, and he felt safe enough to do so.
I love it because he really was just desperately hungry for love and acceptance, yes, but he was also secure enough in himself at this point to just go and humbly try and make friends, even though it didn't quite hit the target he was aiming at (and it could have backfired pretty massively, considering all the history they all shared/his previous experiences with rejection), he did get to enjoy a certain level of camaraderie that I don't think had ever been afforded to him as Zuko. Here he was not Prince Zuko, he was just Zuko and I just find that willingness to be vulnerable so endearing and telling of, both, his character growth and all the potential emotional rewards that lay ahead for him.
If that makes any sense...
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Zuko FC
Nov 11, 2012 15:17:30 GMT -6
Post by makegnomemistake on Nov 11, 2012 15:17:30 GMT -6
Favorite Zuko moment...ugh he has many Crowning Moments of Awesome, but I'm gonna have to pick his Heel Face Turn against his father on the day of the eclipse. Finally, finally, he was deciding the course of his own destiny and breaking free from his father's influence and everybody else's expectations of him. And he didn't just slip out of the FN unnoticed; he faced his father on his own terms, which I thought was an extremely brave thing to do. I was so proud of him at that moment, of how far he'd come from the beginning of the series. There were so many memorable parts of this scene: 1. His strong acknowledgements of his stance on the war and his role in ending it. 2. His firm declaration that Ozai's actions during the Agni Kai all those years ago were wrong and cruel. I think this was incredibly important and powerful statement. Obviously he had to have come to this conclusion on his own previously, but I think this is the first time that we see him acknowledge out loud that he had needlessly and mistakenly chased after some twisted illusory concept of 'honor' when he didn't deserve what had happened to him in the first place, and that his father's actions towards him were unforgivable and irredeemable. 3. Declaring Iroh to have been his true father figure... 4. Finding out that his mother might be alive... And to neatly wrap up this Crowning Moment of Awesome and deliver it with a bow... even after he's lured by Ozai to stay a few moments longer than he should have, he still manages to redirect his father's lightning like a BAMF...*dies*
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Zuko FC
Nov 14, 2012 19:32:21 GMT -6
Post by dynamojacks on Nov 14, 2012 19:32:21 GMT -6
dat CoD thing: I also think it's great from a storytelling perspective. Zuko doesn't just go back because he had a 'moment of truth' in the caves with Katara, he still has some baggage to clear, leaving the season on this heart wrenching cliffhanger which just makes you care even MORE for Zuko's arc. It was very, very well calculated. And by care, I mean I WANTED TO SCREAM AT HIM THROUGH THE GLASS ZUKO YOU IDIOT WHY ZUKO WHYBut later you learn that the payoff is so worth it. He needs to go back, be manipulated if he must but he needs to learn the hard way. Because so far his uncle's wisdom has been barely getting through to him anyway. That's not the way Zuko learns- he has no reason to. He can't draw wisdom from Iroh in the sense that he's not the governor of his life- Ozai is, unfortunately. Iroh happens to just be another traitor as far as his plan goes :/ My heart practically shattered at the end of that. And even more so when he sent the assassin after Aang. And when he made Iroh cry by yelling at him. Just Zuko Fauck Also, this gif gets me every time: I just...you can see the confliction in his eyes and how it pains him to do this. He made the choice and even then you can see how unhappy he is. GAH! It breaks my heart rekugnrtkgr I just noticed his eyebrows just now up close.. and holy shit, you're right. He is so fricking torn up here. It was hard to see at first because he appeared so ANGRY, but here... Just check out those eyes. And those brows ;_; He is NOT happy at all. (boy do I have a lot of catching up to do lol)Anyway. Let me answer the current question. It's hard to pick just one, but if there's one moment that had me squeeing all over the screen- it's when Zuko confronted and renounced Ozai. Just.. the moment when he said he'd come to an even more important decision, and that was joining the Avatar.... SBASHJDFGSDJHF I just wanted to jump for joy then It had been building up to that for so long, and I was wondering when, when is it going to happen? IT FINALLY DOES, AND I JUST CAN'T That was an amazing moment for his character, and makegnomemistake basically summed it all up in one swell post. So much closure here, and all those balls he summoned, just yes. But overall, it showed that he had really grown. He was no longer the confused tormented banished prince, he now had purpose. Because he was ABLE to give himself the purpose that he couldn't before, since there was nobody holding him down.
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thefirelordzuko
Non-Bender
"Let them have Zutara!" - Marie Antoinette
Posts: 42
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Zuko FC
Nov 17, 2012 3:04:23 GMT -6
Post by thefirelordzuko on Nov 17, 2012 3:04:23 GMT -6
I feel like dynamojacks always explains my own thoughts better than I can myself, oh my glob. Like everything you say on Zuko and Katara and Zutara and EVERYTHING is just spot in with how I percieve the show and the relationships within said show.
I was reviewing all of the Zuko Moments that you guys all said were your favorites and GAH it was hard to choose just one (I remember in that moment in time I was REALLY feeling the coronation...just...GAH), but I have to agree that I really LOVE LOVE LOVE Zuko's confrontation with Ozai. Not only, as many of you have said already, was a a MAJOR turning point in Zuko's character arc, but I suddenly see a lot of symbolism in the point where Zuko takes the lightning that Ozai fires. Think about it, for all of his life Zuko has been striving for his father's love and acceptance and PRIDE, he probably would've "taken the lightning" (aka done whatever Ozai wanted) to gain such a thing if it had been several months earlier; this was demonstrated in his drive to get the Avatar. However here we seen Zuko redirecting lighting for the FIRST TIM (if I remember correctly). He's basically showing to his father that he's "not taking orders from him anymore" and he's going to fight him instead; he's found who he is and what HE wants and he's going after it.
It's a spine-chilling moment, especially because of the effects of the lightning, but now because of that symbolism that just popped in my head. O.O
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Zuko FC
Nov 17, 2012 12:21:25 GMT -6
Post by dynamojacks on Nov 17, 2012 12:21:25 GMT -6
I feel like dynamojacks always explains my own thoughts better than I can myself, oh my glob. Like everything you say on Zuko and Katara and Zutara and EVERYTHING is just spot in with how I percieve the show and the relationships within said show. sfddhjgfhdsgkj <3 I don't have any words. I just have way too much free time, so I tend to go on a lot of aimless rants. This makes me so happy <3 Dayum, nice perception. As if.. 'death before dishonour', even at the hands of his father. Add that to the fact that he'd faced his father in a fight before, when he was much younger, only he'd recoiled in fear and shame at the idea of facing his dad, just as he would have if Ozai showed up in front of him later on. Fast forward to now, though, and you have him OVERPOWERING Ozai in the fight, never mind just standing up to him! It also occured to me before that, had Zuko never had that training with Iroh, he'd be dead right about then. He's drawing what he learned from being banished towards defeating his past demons in a number of ways- partly to confront the scourge that was his father's twisted 'honour' influence but also showing his father he doesn't need him breathing down his neck after all, that he can make his own way from here, that he can learn so much that his dad never bothered to teach him because he never had any faith (not to mention his worldview was corrupted and stale). And that mercy or 'running away' wasn't a sign of weakness but a sign that he knows to better pick his battles rather than have them forced on him all the bloody time. I believe this translates pretty well to his acceptance of Katara's mercy of Yon Rha. He doesn't think of her as weak for not taking him out, oh no (Zuko gives him an epic stare down of utter contempt though. If he's alive then he sure as hell is going to suffer THAT much). There's no hope in being trapped in a whirlwind of abuse and neglect if that's only going to translate to his actions towards other people, but Iroh, Aang, Song, Lee and finally Katara's influences slowly got through to helping him understand human decency the way he was never taught by the pursuit of honour and false love. So it was just enough, in the end. Oh but not just his uncle, amirite?All of that. All that in one confrontation, bam! /ramble
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Zuko FC
Nov 24, 2012 18:58:06 GMT -6
Post by dynamojacks on Nov 24, 2012 18:58:06 GMT -6
Can we talk about how Zuko was quite happy to risk death or capture in The Southern Raiders? He's a traitor of the Fire Nation and willingly put himself in danger for the sake of 'earning forgiveness'. And the way he was emotionally invested while yelling at the current leader and, for that matter, glaring some serious fucking daggers at Yon Rha before turning tail and leaving.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Zuko FC
Nov 26, 2012 20:33:07 GMT -6
Post by chromeknickers on Nov 26, 2012 20:33:07 GMT -6
Sign me up!
Okay, I have two questions: which is your favourite Zuko to read and which is your favourite to write?
I will qualify this with the fact that there are different types of Zuko's for different scenarios - young Zuko, S1-3 Zuko, post-war Zuko, older Zuko, etcetera, as well as AU Zuko. But which Zuko is your favourite Zuko to read about and your favourite to write?
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Zuko FC
Nov 27, 2012 9:12:29 GMT -6
Post by manzanasverdes on Nov 27, 2012 9:12:29 GMT -6
I also think there's a huge helping of LOOK HERE IS SOMETHING I CAN ACTUALLY DO AFTER ALL THIS TIME OF BEING MORE OR LESS INEFFECTIVE. Zuko just wants to help because he really does have it in him and here is a possibility to, not only help an ally resolve a very personal issue, but to do something and be good at it.
It's really annoying when his motivations, specifically in TSR, get reduced to 'he just wanted to get her off his back' or 'he just wanted her forgiveness (for whatever reason either camp of Zuko lovers/haters choose)', because to me, there's a bit of both, plus his want to be useful. Of course he wanted the hostilities to stop, Katara wasn't actively preventing him from being with them, but she was making his stay as painful as she could, and I can understand how he may want that to stop (I don't think he was aiming at making a new bff when all was said and done, he was mighty surprised when she went and threw herself at him, after all. May have been hoping with every fiber of his being, but I don't think he'd really believed he'd get that much at the end. Not because of Katara, but because previous experience tells him that if something can go belly-up for him, it is likely to do so). Finally, she explodes at him and he has an answer, her rage isn't so much about what he did or didn't do (tho there is a heaping truckload of that), but about what was done to her and she has no means to vent but through him, which only came to be because he got tangled into her giant ball of mommy-related rage when they bonded over their mothers. So, it's all too complex and touchy and layered to make it be about one single thing.
Especially when that one single thing is Zuko's non-existent utter selfishness. Call him a jerk, because he has his moments; call him a spoiled brat, because Iroh will totes toast to that; but selfish? S1 ZUKO CHOSE, TIME AND AGAIN, TO HALT HIS MISSION FOR THE SAKES OF OTHERS' WELL-BEING. So he has issues trusting and opening up and letting himself be cared for (as much as he wants to be), but that's not the same as selfishness. And even if there were some selfish/self-interested undertones to his offer to Katara, can you really blame him if he wants to be on the good side of the person who, once upon a time, offered to use this precious possession she'd been saving for something important to rid him of his 'mark of shame', even though they were supposed to be enemies at that point? I really can't find it in me to begrudge him a want for a return of that kindness. And, hey, maybe he ALSO wanted to return that particular kindness. Look at that, another possible layer.
Zuko appeals to me so much because he is just. so. complex. And it really rubs me the wrong way when his motivations for whatever (but especially for helping Katara) get reduced to oh, he just wanted this one thing for himself. Because fuck that. He's been there, he knows how impotence can weigh on you, he knows what an absent mother can do to you, further he knows just what it has done to Katara, and he knows that like himself, Katara is a person of action, she needs to do, philosophizing on the importance of forgiveness isn't really her thing; she forgives, but the thing is that she does it entirely, with the same fullness with which she trusted the first time, it isn't something she half-asses (Zuko being the shiny example here), so it wouldn't sit well with her to extend that courtesy to someone who's done nothing to deserve it. As I said before, Aang was right that she needed to forgive, but he was wrong about who she needed to forgive; unlike Zuko who knew that, at the very least, she needed to set things straight within herself, Zuko knew this wasn't about Yon Rah but about Katara (eventually Aang understood this too, and so gave his blessings, but it wasn't as instinctive as Zuko's understanding, y'know? and it still had some caveats...) and you don't go around knowing stuff like that unless there's sufficient empathy in you. Zuko has entirely too much empathy which is what got him burned and banished in the first place.
HOW CAN ANYONE QUESTION THAT KATARA'S WELL-BEING WAS A HUGE PART OF HIS DRIVING FORCE HERE, IS SERIOUSLY BEYOND ME.
ETA: there is a certain art to getting sidetracked, you know. That's my true talent, after all.
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Zuko FC
Nov 27, 2012 14:23:18 GMT -6
Post by advocaat on Nov 27, 2012 14:23:18 GMT -6
My favorite Zuko to write is adorkable/awkward S3 Zuko. He's just so charming. I never get tired of him.
My favorite Zuko to read... I dunno, most of them. S2 Zuko is wonderful in the show, but he's probably my least favorite to read (in most cases). Also, I'm a bit picky when it comes to older Zuko. I feel like his personality is too often changed dramatically in future!fics.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Zuko FC
Nov 29, 2012 20:25:02 GMT -6
Post by chromeknickers on Nov 29, 2012 20:25:02 GMT -6
I enjoy S1-3 Zuko the best. A problem I can have with a post-war, older Zuko is that some people will still keep him very awkward. If it's only a few years after the series that's okay, but if it's years later I really don't see Zuko remaining so awkward. He's the Fire Lord. At some point he would have developed the temper to become an excellent ruler, which would prevent him from being so awkward and bumbling. He can still have his awkward moments, in private (and I would adore that), but not S3 Zuko who was a bundle of nerves and awkwardness because he was trying to win over the gaang. Heck, S1 Zuko had way more confidence than S3 Zuko (until he trained with the dragons).
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