Rebut anti-Zutara arguments here

[mati]

Dec 4, 2012 20:44:24 GMT -6 dynamojacks said:

I think the person could have been a bit more tactful in their wording- the 'not respecting the history' seems unnecessary. But I don't think they meant any harm- I guess they're new to the concept of fanon. I was new to it when I came across Avatar. At first, I thought shipping outside of the canon pairing wouldn't be 'right', but that's only because the material I'd read/watched/played before hadn't given me any reason to doubt the canon.

Also, I think the problem with Tumblr tags is that it's less about 'categorization' and more about 'communication' with other fans of said tag. So it's a bit of a sore point if you're addressing fans in particular and what you've got to say isn't something they like to hear. I was afraid folk wouldn't like the 'Zuko admonishing Aang for getting distracted by Katara' caption thing because I was kinda poking fun at Aang, but lo and behold what happens? It gets more reblogs from KATAANG fans. That I did not expect at all. (I also had one of those Kataang fans making a derisive remark towards Zutarians. Um. Thanks, lol)
Anyway. Rival Tumblr tags can be perfectly fine if you're addressing both sides with something- like if you have one of those announcements on how to be a good shipper, or if you have something which is 'shipper ambiguous'. But if in doubt, leave it out is what I say xD;

Saw Kataangcaps' post- ugh really? Justifying the crap we get because people start it on their tag? Yeah no fuck off kid. People like this is the reason the ship war will never end. (Also I just saw a response of theirs to an ask and I got to wonder if this person was legit dropped on their head at birth. What the everloving fuck.)

That brings me to another point that Kataangers(?) keep bringing up- that the characters history/development is disrespected when another ship is thrown in. Something to do with Kataang being the 'DNA of Avatar' or some bollocks that Bryke said. Which is funny because I read somewhere they had told someone that Kataang/Zutara was FIFTY-FIFTY, or at least made to look like that. And considering the construction of the very last season, it makes too much sense. There was little to no Kataang-friendly evidence since Zuko hops on board. Katara rebuffs Aang, she becomes more motherly, and there's NO other romance cues or notes on Katara feelings. Nada. Which is why the endgame was so surprising for many. Because the character dynamic between Zuko and Katara, and the other characters, completely took centre stage right until the last moments.

So if Kataang truly was the 'DNA' of Avatar they had a funny way of showing it.

LOL^
Your post is made of win =]

Well, I might've overreacted to that person on DA ^^;
But to be honest it did bug me because he/she knows well enough why I drew Zutara fanart so what's the point in asking that? It's like inciting shipping arguments between Zutarians and Kataangers is their essence of living XD

Honestly - I've said it before, but shipping was never the heart of the ATLA series. EVER. And I'd rather Bryke didn't deal with it at all, because IMO, they suck when it comes to romance (LOK -e.g please -_- ).

And like always - I agree with all the above you said about S3 development. It was pretty obvious, though. But then again - I won't start lecturing Kataangers on how their ship is hardly believable and too forced.

I've always shipped canonical couples before Zutara because those I shipped were flawless and made sense, so it's the same for me as well with Zutara.

[dynamojacks]

Getting real tired of the fandom's shit, especially on the Avatar Wiki. People think they have the episodes all worked out and 'anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded' or 'the things we saw were just delusions'. Like The Southern Raiders. They dare to fanwank in shit like Aang so obviously forgave the sandbenders just because he 'didn't go after them'. Uh, that's not forgiveness genius, that's just 'not following through and leaving shit behind'. Have your headcanon, but don't try and tell us that actually happened because it fucking didn't.
I hate it when peoples' arguments rely too much on headcanon, yet reject any reasonable 'headcanon' of, say, ZUKO'S actions. Reduce him to a one-dimensional character while giving Aang layers, huh? Fucking double standards. And they call us deluded.

Here's the problem I keep seeing. People are taking a lot of the episodes on an episode by episode basis. No. Avatar isn't like that- it has continuity. I marathonned the entirity of Book 3 in ONE DAY, a single day after finishing Crossroads of Destiny. Go figure that I wouldn't take each episode at face value like a lot of others do. There are a lot of threads behind the characters and their motivations, and they appear to continue throughout, say, Zuko's redemption. Like it or not, Zuko and Katara are 'tied' to each other. Who knows in what way when you first watch, especially with all the convoluted symbolism (like the fucking cave of crystals in the FIRST PLACE)? But come The Southern Raiders, you start to see that shit really pay off, so it's almost like there is something more going on. They have some really deep interaction and closure. So the whole cave encounter really undercurrents all the stuff in between then and TSR. When people are watching stuff in one go, they're gonna be hooked that particular storyline 'subtext', because it's pretty fucking huge- Katara touched Zuko's SCAR for Pete's sake. And when you get down to it, their interaction really stands head and shoulders above the Maiko scenes, and that was a main fucking ROMANCE. Because there was actual evident emotional connection going on in the cave. You just don't see that in the FN with Mai and Zuko, because it's quite evident that Zuko is twisted up and unhappy. And he doesn't fucking talk about anything.

Also did the Avatar Wiki seriously transcribe Zuko's 'intense stare' after Mai kissed him to 'a look of relief'? Uh, what? I didn't get 'relief' from that look at all. He looked a bit ..well, too intense to be relieved of anything.

I'm sorry, but when people throw the 'you're deluded' card in defense of some really unclear and convoluted storytelling, I have to slap some bitches. Bryke's romance storytelling was pants and WE had to suffer for it. We were misled or otherwise fed random signals that weren't 'supposed' to connect, but did. I refuse to believe they weren't pulling this crap on purpose, because if they gave two shits about the romance at all, they'd know to at least give Zuko some sense of guilt or ANY EMOTION AT ALL for leaving Mai behind at the fucking Boiling Rock.

Believe you me. I have NEVER shipped anything non-canon before, ever. I didn't expect all this crap from a series' fandom just for following something that could realistically have been, that makes more sense to me than what actually happened. Uggh. Can't we even agree that Bryke was misleading us? No, it has to be 'WE'RE SEEING THINGS THAT WEREN'T THERE' or 'WE'RE ONLY SEEING WHAT WE WANT TO SEE'.
Just because Bryke spouted some shit and got the high and mighties all self-righteous on us. And this whole insistence that they 'don't owe us anything'. I'd be willing to agree to that if they didn't pull the crap that they did. They made the romantic interactions dubious at best and fucking contradictory at worst. And then had the nerve to mock us for taking it any other way when their storytelling failed to even make any damn sense.

lalalala Zutarians are just pulling it out of thin air lalalalala

Oh I'd like to pose the fandom this question. If it was so clear cut what was going on with Zuko's romantic feelings, explain how Dante Basco himself had no fucking idea he was going to end up with Mai. He was so convinced Zuko was meant for KATARA. He even said that himself. Oh and considering the nature of voice acting, the fact that you have to do numerous takes and inflect what the character is thinking/feeling, go figure how the communication behind the scenes to do with the endgame romance was, never mind in the finished product, huh?

[mati]

^ Well I agree with all the above said, and I still think that either Bryke intended to troll us in the first place (and it made me hate them for their inability to write romance at all, because let's face it - even the romance in LOK sucks and is hardly believable) or Nick wouldn't allow the anti hero to get the girl in the end, because it's somehow inappropriate for the children's cartoon and the main hero MUST always get the girl and have a love interest.
Or maybe it's both >_>"
Either way - Kataangers can go f*ck themselves for all I care if they keep saying stuff like that (but let's face it, there's no point in trying to reason with them at all), we all know that they're the ones who are deluding all the time and have a very distorted view of what a healthy and believable relationship should be like (I mean COME ON! There's no way in the world that a premature love between 13-15 year olds will eventually end up in marriage and kids and stuff, this is pure bullshit! >_< ).

[dynamojacks]

Unfortunately :/ Honestly, I don't blame people for taking the story of the romance at face value. It's when they defend to the hilt the storytelling OF said romance and reject any and all perfectly reasonable criticisms of it! It's these crazy Kataangers, who have the nerve to say we're delusional when we were given:

1. symbolic curve balls- symbolism used for both Kataang AND Zutara
2. potential real developments of Kataang having been brushed under the carpet, overshadowed by powerful development of Zutara

See, the argument against Zutara is that it goes through total upheaval in order to work. But here's the kicker- all relationships need at least a bit of it. Where did Kataang even go through the TINIEST bit of upheaval? Where were the issues to do with the Avatar State ever addressed as per their relationship, for instance? When did Aang ever learn to really compromise for Katara as opposed to vice versa?

And then if you please, we're shown that Zuko is more than capable of repairing his and Katara's much-damaged relationship, not only that, but he is able to compromise his own interests and well being FOR THE SAKE OF KATARA. And they're seriously telling us that Zuko is a terrible fit for her?! Lies and slander.
Even the Zutara friendship appears more balanced than the Kataang 'relationship'. What is this cockery.