thefirelordzuko
Non-Bender
"Let them have Zutara!" - Marie Antoinette
Posts: 42
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Post by thefirelordzuko on Nov 6, 2012 19:32:27 GMT -6
Of course we don't mind! That is what this thread is for! Discussion and indulging in many, many Zutara feels! <3 I'm trying to avoid comparing/discussing other pairings too much here, but I think the important thing (and what you really showed in your discussion) is that Katara understands Zuko on a different level to the rest of the characters. I don't feel that the only reason Katara and Zuko would work as a couple is because both of them lost their mums; that would be like chucking two depressed people together and saying 'have fun'. However, the difference for Zutara is that they really aren't two depressed people. When they discuss what happened to their mums, it's not really this 'woe is me' exhange, but more of a 'I want to help you' exchange. That is the important thing. Instead of wallowing in self-pity, Katara and Zuko always reach out for each other. That's why their relationship would still be healthy regardless of the hardships they have faced. Because they don't drag each other down; they try to uplift and support, and because they have gone through similiar experiences they actually know how to do that for each other. I could talk about this all day, but I really need to get back to my work, haha. I totally agree with you. Everyone who has commented, really, has said what I wanted to say and is just flawless so I was simply presenting the idea that came to my mind first at the moment. Also, I was trying to steer away from comparing the pairings/characters, but to say they understand each other better than others and not provide evidence is a weak statement. There needs to be proof. That being said, I love Mai and Aang as well, so I meant no disrespect on their characters or their corresponding ships. *Is a shameless multishipper and character-lover* (: But yes, I agree it's not throwing two depressed people together and letting them wallow in their pity and sorrow. No, as you said, it's more than that. They bring out the best in each other and really help the other out, whether it be finding the man who killed Katara's mother or listening to Zuko in front of Iroh's tent. They work together and fluidly, like the push and pull of the tide or, coincidentally, water and fire. It seems like a really cliche Zutarian thing to say, but is there really another way to describe it? I dunno...I'm better at putting Zuko's thoughts out on paper xD
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 6, 2012 19:56:05 GMT -6
I've always loved that line. I think it describes Zuko/Katara so well, but just this whole piece is beautiful. I agree. I think that's what I love the most about there two is that they are so uneasy and awkward around each other sometimes and yet it feels right. It's almost like a familiar rhythm. They just fall into it so perfectly, and I love fics that capture that. They're awkward but they're right, and they just don't question each other. They share a sort of amazing understanding that doesn't need words. *sighs happily* Just so good. Might be time for another re-read of your collection. ^_~ Hehe. I still can't believe I wrote that collection when I had only seen a few episodes. The ones I saw were mainly Zuko/Katara, and they were just that inspiring. I just knew I had to write these two, even just as friends or unrequited lovers. ^_^ But yes, I agree it's not throwing two depressed people together and letting them wallow in their pity and sorrow. No, as you said, it's more than that. They bring out the best in each other and really help the other out, whether it be finding the man who killed Katara's mother or listening to Zuko in front of Iroh's tent. They work together and fluidly, like the push and pull of the tide or, coincidentally, water and fire. It seems like a really cliche Zutarian thing to say, but is there really another way to describe it? I dunno...I'm better at putting Zuko's thoughts out on paper xD Sometimes clichéd sayings sum up ideas the best. ^_~ Speaking of clichés... they say a man ends up marrying his mother (and woman ends up marrying her father). I think in many ways Zutara is that mother figure that Zuko craves, yet she is not overtly motherly. She is caring, she wants to help, and she discourages bad behaviour. And as much as I like Mai in fanon, Mai from canon is downright toxic for Zuko (and vice versa). Zuko needs someone who is willing to slap him upside the head should he turn emo or pout or get angry, not encourage or condone that sort of behaviour. And let's be honest - Katara needs someone who is not going to roll over and take her abuse. Katara is quite bossy and dominant (often in good ways). I think she'd get rather bored of a submissive always capitulating to her demands and not challenging her in anyway. But that's my opinion.
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Post by Admin on Nov 7, 2012 0:03:51 GMT -6
WELCOME TO THE ZUTARA FC,advocaat, peachyju, chromeknickers, honeybee, and kaoru! Make sure to read the fanclub rules, and feel free to join in the discussion!DISCUSSION QUESTIONWhy do you ship Zutara?✄ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -This scene is just...god. I can't with this scene. Just why are they not canon? They're too perfect... One word: redemption. They're both flawed human beings trying to find their place in the world. Neither of them are perfect - god knows both characters, at times, have been absolutely horrible to one another throughout the series. But you know what? Even when they were on opposing sides, they still tried to save one other - from pirates, harsh elements, failing rocks, and just plain falling. But more than the physical dangers, they also tried to soothe one another of the emotional pain they've endured in their short lives as well.
If you think about it, they have opened up to each other in ways that neither of them could bring themselves to do with those who were closest to them.
They don't know each other, don't trust each other, but they understand each other, because they both share a common pain: the loss of a mother.
But more than that, they've seen each other at their darkest moments. He understood anger and violence all too well, so when she bloodbended and displayed a ruthlessness that even took him by surprise, he didn't try and talk her down from it. He understood what it was like to be in that kind of mind set. To be so obsessed with something that you grew a bitter and resentful attitude towards everyone and everything around you, because they didn't understand. How could they? So he kept quiet and let her make her own choices. He knew that she needed to confront her demons, not run away from them. If she had done what Aang wanted and not pursue the matter, it would have ate her up inside, and she would have hated him for it.
Okay, so maybe Zuko did what he did out of selfish reasons, but there's no denying that he understood exactly how she felt. If he had the chance to go after the person who took his mother away from him, there would be no stopping him.
Zuko was there, by her side, when she faced her mother's killer, and she was by his side when he was feeling so utterly despondent about facing his Uncle again after everything he had said and did to him. They both seem to come at exactly the right moment to pick each other back up again after a fall.
Plus, let's not forget that he took a freakin' bolt of lightning to the heart for her!
*Ahem* This is why I ship this pairing. Because they understand each other in a way that no one else possibly could.
(So.... can I join the fanclub?)
Oh my god. Your entire post. Just yes, and you are flawless. You said everything I wanted to say, but so eloquently put. The Election and Marine Training has exhausted me today, so I'll get to reading the other posts later. I wanted to welcome the new members. I'm very happy this FC is going deep in discussion. Thank you all for being here and making me love Zutara more.
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Post by kathrynlacey on Nov 7, 2012 10:59:07 GMT -6
Nymre, that video is so awesome! How have I never seen it before? ^ ^
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honeybee
Bender
Canon? What's That? O_o
Posts: 70
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Post by honeybee on Nov 7, 2012 11:19:31 GMT -6
I find this one very cute:
And I love this one! Not only does it have Zutara in it, it also has Taang, Sokkue, and Sukka:
Enjoy! =D
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Post by advocaat on Nov 7, 2012 11:31:17 GMT -6
I've always loved Avatar Couples: Broken. It's such a beautiful video.
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honeybee
Bender
Canon? What's That? O_o
Posts: 70
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Post by honeybee on Nov 7, 2012 12:34:18 GMT -6
I hope no one thought that I only ship them because of the whole mother issue. XD I just wanted to point out that understanding someone is very important. They understand each other in many ways, but the mother thing - so deep and personal and so very close to their hearts - was something that had erased the line drawn between them for a moment, allowing each of them to view the other as something more than just an opposing force that needed to be put down, but as a person with thoughts, feelings and reasons of their very own. Just like them.
Both carried a constant heartache within them that they had stubbornly hid away from the rest of the world, but there, alone in the crystal catacombs, they let those walls fall down from around them and allowed each other to see themselves at their most vulnerable.
So yeah, I like that they broke down together, but they also rise together. That's what I love about these two. They don't stay down for long, they get right back up again, and if one is down, the other will help them back to their feet. Physically, emotionally and spiritually.
So, what I'm trying to say is that having a shared understanding is very important between two people, because understanding leads to trust, trust leads to love, and love leads to...
Well, there's no possibly way that I can finish that sentence in a mature way (STEAM BABIES!) so we'll just leave it at that.
EDIT: Thanks for adding me! *Glomp*
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Post by dynamojacks on Nov 7, 2012 14:22:57 GMT -6
Katara doesn't mother him, and he doesn't have to be a voice of reason with her. When Katara talks, Zuko listens, and vice versa. I think this is one of the main reasons why I feel Zuko/Katara balance each other so well. Zuko doesn't need to be mothered by Katara; he allows her to just be a girl instead of positioning her as his psuedo-mum, and this is something that she actually needs. She is constantly giving to others, with no real thought to her feelings; Zuko, however, pays attention to how she is feeling. He is the one who pinpoints that something is really wrong with Katara at the Western Air Temple, because he senses that the hate she feels for him goes deeper than just mere feelings of betrayal. He even recognised that the necklace she wore was important to her, and at that point he was her enemy. In turn, Zuko doesn't spend his whole time telling her what to do, etc (or vice versa). What you see is a real partnership; they listen, respect and support each other, and I completely agree that what makes their relationship truly beautiful is that it wasn't easy to get to that point. Out of all of the 'couples', they are the ones who develop the most. It's not just an easy 'this is how it's going to be, because we're destined' relationship; it's hard work. They really do have to fight to be friends, and from there all it would have taken was just the slightest push to tilt that feeling from friendship to romance; that's how beautiful and natural the connection between these two is. Zutara doesn't have to be an established canon relationship, because the feelings that they have for each other is whispered in every look, conversation and touch they share. Still on the subject of 'balance', I have always appreciated the fact that Katara gives so much hope and warmth to Zuko. Let's face it, he can be quite moody and brooding (and we love him for that), but the way she responds to him and tries to comfort him is to help him see the lighter side of things. I'm hoping this is keeping with the rules of the FC, but I have a small section from a ficlet-thing I wrote ( The Rose) which expresses what I'm trying to say much more succinctly by using a comparison with Mai (whom I do love, actually - just not so much as she is portrayed with Zuko in canon): Basically, this whole section is a reflection of the way I see how Katara (and, to some degree, the rest of the Gaang) help Zuko to open up and see the beauty of the world, but also his own potential. Katara doesn't shut him down like we see Mai do; she doesn't treat his problems like they are trivial. She listens, and once she finally grants him that forgiveness we know that she would do anything for him (and he proves just how much he would sacrifice for her by taking the lightning strike in her place). They really do balance each other, but they also bring out the best in each other. This is what a true partnership means to me, and why I pretty much love Zutara over all of the other AtLA ships. ASDGSFASDGSFD THIS. (ow my emotions x-x) That's exactly how I saw the thing with Mai. And honestly, we saw that Zuko was pretty unhappy in the Fire Nation anyway- under the surface - because of that explosion in the Beach, his confusion over what's right and wrong.. Y'see, I get that Mai CARED for Zuko in her own way. I'm not saying that she was terrible in that regard. But I don't think the story gave me enough cues as to the nature of her care. And it didn't gel with what he really needed, either. Her coping mechanism was to repress stuff and pretend it's not bothering her- the kind of mentality that's already destroyed her inside for the most part. Mai got Zuko to do this on the ship ride home, get him to 'not worry' because he's here there (and she's happy that Zuko's finally back so.. go figure D8). What she didn't realise is that that was so hazardous for him, considering he doesn't NOT care about all the things around him, especially the Ba Sing Se stuff. Also, a little headcanon. When he was at the beach freaking out, he had these flashbulb memories in his head that flickered and burned every time they showed up. The very last one that appeared before he exploded was Katara touching him in the catacombs. Katara's the one who really challenges the moral part of him, too, which is what he really needed. Up until then, his moral compass has been contradictory, leading to confusion. I don't think Mai is the kind of character who would help to alleviate said confusion- I mean, she's quite the mess herself. She might balance his ANGER on a surface level (appearing so calm on the outside), but I don't think she has what it takes to challenge the root of said anger and help him grow.
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honeybee
Bender
Canon? What's That? O_o
Posts: 70
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Post by honeybee on Nov 7, 2012 15:15:41 GMT -6
Katara doesn't mother him, and he doesn't have to be a voice of reason with her. When Katara talks, Zuko listens, and vice versa. I think this is one of the main reasons why I feel Zuko/Katara balance each other so well. Zuko doesn't need to be mothered by Katara; he allows her to just be a girl instead of positioning her as his psuedo-mum, and this is something that she actually needs. She is constantly giving to others, with no real thought to her feelings; Zuko, however, pays attention to how she is feeling. He is the one who pinpoints that something is really wrong with Katara at the Western Air Temple, because he senses that the hate she feels for him goes deeper than just mere feelings of betrayal. He even recognised that the necklace she wore was important to her, and at that point he was her enemy. In turn, Zuko doesn't spend his whole time telling her what to do, etc (or vice versa). What you see is a real partnership; they listen, respect and support each other, and I completely agree that what makes their relationship truly beautiful is that it wasn't easy to get to that point. Out of all of the 'couples', they are the ones who develop the most. It's not just an easy 'this is how it's going to be, because we're destined' relationship; it's hard work. They really do have to fight to be friends, and from there all it would have taken was just the slightest push to tilt that feeling from friendship to romance; that's how beautiful and natural the connection between these two is. Zutara doesn't have to be an established canon relationship, because the feelings that they have for each other is whispered in every look, conversation and touch they share. Still on the subject of 'balance', I have always appreciated the fact that Katara gives so much hope and warmth to Zuko. Let's face it, he can be quite moody and brooding (and we love him for that), but the way she responds to him and tries to comfort him is to help him see the lighter side of things. I'm hoping this is keeping with the rules of the FC, but I have a small section from a ficlet-thing I wrote ( The Rose) which expresses what I'm trying to say much more succinctly by using a comparison with Mai (whom I do love, actually - just not so much as she is portrayed with Zuko in canon): Basically, this whole section is a reflection of the way I see how Katara (and, to some degree, the rest of the Gaang) help Zuko to open up and see the beauty of the world, but also his own potential. Katara doesn't shut him down like we see Mai do; she doesn't treat his problems like they are trivial. She listens, and once she finally grants him that forgiveness we know that she would do anything for him (and he proves just how much he would sacrifice for her by taking the lightning strike in her place). They really do balance each other, but they also bring out the best in each other. This is what a true partnership means to me, and why I pretty much love Zutara over all of the other AtLA ships. People call me eloquent? I believe that title goes to you, my dear. That was beautiful! <3 Any way we can send this to the creators of the show? Because this is why we love Zutara! Zutarians are always getting labeled as unreasonably shallow people who only put these two characters together for superficial reasons. There's a lot more thought put into the pairing than people care to realise. A lot more. I'm glad to see so many fantastic explanations as to why we sail on this ship!
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 8, 2012 11:02:04 GMT -6
To be honest, I don't like to label my enjoyment of Zutara as shipping. Since I started watching the show last summer, years after the show ended, I was never invested in pairings or who ended up with whom. I was far more interested in the mythology and the character development (especially of Zuko) than romance. Having said that, after the show I became more interested in possible futures or alternate storylines. As a writer and a reader I wanted to explore the what-ifs and the could-bes, and out of all the characters the development between Zuko and Katara was the most interesting, the most dynamic. These two developed in their own separate ways after the course of three seasons, as well as their relationship with one another. From the first season, where Katara fears Zuko and Zuko looks down on Katara, to the second season where Katara pities Zuko and Zuko wrestles with letting her get close, to the third season where Zuko tries to right his wrongs against her and Katara eventually deals with her anger over his betrayal and accepts him as a friend. Essentially, it is their development and their friendship - a sort of overcoming obstacles and adversities - that makes me truly enjoy and appreciate these two as a pairing. If anything, I am far more interested in the connections these two make, the formation of a bond and a sort of co-dependence despite their independent natures, than any romance.
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