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Post by dynamojacks on Nov 6, 2012 4:05:01 GMT -6
Oh boy, TSR again. D8 Getting really sick of people on the 'opposing side' simplifying Zuko's character in this thing to 'the devil on Katara's shoulder'. As if that's what Bryke referred to in the DVD commentary (if I'm not mistaken?)- if that's the case, ugh, not happy with them. He's much more complex than that. His motivations are much more layered than people think they are. People underestimate how much he really /gets/ her, because uh, she opened up to him that one time like she did with nobody else. I have a hard time believing Bryke didn't intend for some serious curveballs in this episode.. *OH HAY, don't you just love it when people complain about folks shitting on Aang but in the same breath shit all over Zuko's character? F-ing double standards. /rage
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Post by Admin on Nov 6, 2012 9:00:26 GMT -6
I'm loving the discussion going on, and I'll join in later, but I just want to address things first.
1.) Read the Fanclub Rules. One-liners are not allowed here, unless you're asking to join, because it's spamming.
2.) Check the member list or previous posts to see if you're already in. Do not keep asking to join when you've asked once.
3.) If you're going to squee and make ASDFGHDHJKL posts, make sure to add some quality into it. Like post a fanart, fanfic, fanvid, a discussion question, or talk about anything interesting that relates to Zutara.
Mods: You don't have to make a post about updating the front post, unless I've somehow disappeared for ages. Also, please keep the member list in alphabetical order so members can find their username easily.
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mati
Bender
Posts: 129
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Post by mati on Nov 6, 2012 11:21:51 GMT -6
This is truly a beautiful fanart, I really liked the concept :3 But I have to say - that this magnificent piece of work has totally made me ship Zutara. so. HARD: (and also made me write a fanfic/doujinshi that's still in the making, but who cares XD)
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Post by advocaat on Nov 6, 2012 13:02:36 GMT -6
The issue I have (and this is something a lot of writers do when making romantic subplots) is that they spend too much time doing the "let's play a mystery game called 'Guess the End Game Romance'" with their audience without actually bothering to take the time to cement good, strong development to show why the couple(s) that is eventually chosen should be the ultimate pairing. Then you get stuck with these forced pairings that didn't have enough natural development to seem believable, and that's just disappointing - especially when you know you could have loved them had they been done right. This is very true. Stories that are built around creating ship wars have never been enjoyable for me, as someone who wants to fall in love with the natural, meaningful development of the characters and their relationships. Zutara was a beautiful example of that kind of meaningful development. Katara was the only member of the Gaang who Zuko got to know on a truly personal level. He bonded with Aang and Sokka to a degree, but he never learned their pasts or shared his feelings with them he did with Katara. She was the one he talked about his mother with, and then she was the one he shared his insecurities about his uncle with at the White Lotus camp. They comfort each other and try to help each other, and more than anything, they respect each other. Katara doesn't mother him, and he doesn't have to be a voice of reason with her. When Katara talks, Zuko listens, and vice versa. What makes their relationship truly beautiful was that it wasn't easy. They had to trudge through some deep mud in order to establish the wonderful trust we see between them, and the end result is a bond strong enough for Zuko to take lightning for her without a moment's hesitation.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 6, 2012 13:48:11 GMT -6
Sign me up.
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nymre
Non-Bender
mangos.
Posts: 49
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Post by nymre on Nov 6, 2012 15:20:51 GMT -6
^will forever be my all time favorite~
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Post by dynamojacks on Nov 6, 2012 16:00:42 GMT -6
The issue I have (and this is something a lot of writers do when making romantic subplots) is that they spend too much time doing the "let's play a mystery game called 'Guess the End Game Romance'" with their audience without actually bothering to take the time to cement good, strong development to show why the couple(s) that is eventually chosen should be the ultimate pairing. Then you get stuck with these forced pairings that didn't have enough natural development to seem believable, and that's just disappointing - especially when you know you could have loved them had they been done right. This is very true. Stories that are built around creating ship wars have never been enjoyable for me, as someone who wants to fall in love with the natural, meaningful development of the characters and their relationships. Yes yes, this. I'm certain they DID try to rile up the fandom on numerous occasions. Basically using the characters as plot devices in order to taunt the audience. What were they expecting? I don't believe for one minute they 'didn't think' of Zutara from the very beginning. I just.. wish they didn't have to justify their taunting the fandom outside of the show, because it's just gone and made things very unpleasant for all of us :C Yeah, the relationship we saw in Zuko and Katara was a really transformative one. It seemed to go with the whole thing the show stood for anyways- the times changing, and changing with them sorta thing. It could have been another one of those things the characters worked towards, because they both did a lot of changing and growing when it came to accepting each other. And they were already on such a level ground that a relationship was more than possible. It's not like it was one of those things that would just happen overnight- they really did struggle to get to this point.
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thefirelordzuko
Non-Bender
"Let them have Zutara!" - Marie Antoinette
Posts: 42
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Post by thefirelordzuko on Nov 6, 2012 18:15:36 GMT -6
I know I'm like jumping in here, I hope you guys don't mind, but you guys really have said it all. Like, I was planning on writing this whole essay-type thing about all the seasons and analyzing every part of Zutara, something I actually might do in the future when I'm not as busy with my life, but a lot of you guys have stated many wonderful points and I think if I just restated them in my own voice, it wouldn't do much to the conversation and discussion that is taking place.
So, that being said, one of the reasons I really ship them is how much they udnerstand each other. I have a friend that roleplays Mai and she's BRILLIANT (actually got me shipping Maiko) and she really knows Mai's character like the back of her hand. She expained to me a lot of Mai's actions and why she does things. And I agree with her, Mai does understand Zuko to a certain extent. She has been his friend longest, she was there at the time he got scarred and banished and his mother left and Lu Ten died and ect ect. Yeah, okay, she is knowledgeable in Zuko's life and what had occurred in it, to a certain point (she was obviously not there when chasing the Avatar and such).
But, Mai doesn't really understand Zuko. While I agree with my friend that she knows a lot about the guy, she doesn't understand him like Katara does. If you know what I mean. (that was not meant to be sexual but now looking back...it kinda seems like it O.O oops)
Katara has been through what Zuko has; not everything, but enough. She has lost someone she really cared about, just like Zuko, and they dealt with it in the same way. Katara had to step into the role of the mother, literally string her family together and BE her mother while he pushed her own emotions side for everyone else, especially after her father left. It's been shown during so many moments in the series: She was always there calming Aang down from the Avatar State, she was pulling everyone through the desert, she was giving off optimisim everywhere. She was the support and she simply discarded her feelings and didn't deal with them or come to terms with them
Then Zuko. With him it was the same. Lu Ten died and his mother was pulled away from him. Just like Katara, this was done at a young age. It was all happening so fast, he didn't have anyone to turn to. There was Azula, not really much help, and Ozai. Oh, especially Ozai...Zuko most likely felt, in order to earn his father's praise and love, that he couldn't show his emotion or turn to his dad in times of need. So he too pushed his feelings aside, even to his Uncle (who probably say through his facade anyway), and didn't deal with them. His mother was his only confidant, bascially his only friend, and Lu Ten was the cousin he looked up to, the person he wished to be like when he was older. And don't even get me started on when Zuko was scarred and banished. *I JUST HAVE A LOT OF ZUKO FEELS, OKAY?*
The two of them probably blame themselves for the loss of their mothers as well.
Both Zuko and Katara felt horrible losses at a young age and never really dealt with them. Aang, while his loss was greater and just plain horrible, he had the support he needed to get through it and grow from it...Zuko and Katara didn't. That's why, when I watch the Southern Raiders, I don't see Zuko pressuring Katara to kill the man or that violence was the answer. Forgiveness and mercy are totally differen't things. Zuko simply let Katara learn and grow from the experience on her own, to learn about forgiveness and such instead of having ideas thrown at her and pushed upon her. Aang had been right, violence wasn't the answer, but he hadn't been right on forcing forgivness upon her.
Zuko, in turn, understood her pain and just let her do what she needed, so she could learn from experience. He didn't force her to kill the man nor did he force her to forgive him. He was simply there, aiding her in what she needed to do, and in that time of her life and coping with her mother's death, Katara needed that. She was hurting and Zuko hadn't made her shove it aside once more and mother him as she did to everyone else. No, they worked together and worked off each other and learned from each other.
Just as boogum said, they really do balance each other out and bring our the best in each other.
Now, I know my comments are a lot of rambling and I typed this pretty fast, so please excuse me for any typos (I am the typo queen), but yeah I think you all understand what I was trying to get across even though I wasn't the best at saying it.
Here is a more understandable explination if that really didn't make any sense to you (I need to make an outline for this stuff or something. But how can one outline feels?):
SIERUGHSIRUGBNWTGUKN HERUKJGBCHEWIURGCREWHGKNER;WGPOWEPTOIUHGB TGUREHWOIGUEHRWGIKBWETGLOJER'GPOWERPGUKHWREGIKREHNGIERNGFIERNG[WRHGIWRGBWRG
PERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF <3
There, I'm sure many of you understood that (:
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kaoru
Bender
~nyaa...
Posts: 139
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Post by kaoru on Nov 6, 2012 18:42:01 GMT -6
May I join please?
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 6, 2012 19:03:38 GMT -6
I think everyone here has summed up the reasons why Katara and Zuko work together so well. What I will add is my interpretation of why Katara is so right for him, and why any other girl wouldn't do (i.e. I don't pair him with Katara for the sake of her being the fandom's 'bicycle'). This excerpt from Unrequited sums up my feelings:
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