"The Crossroads of Destiny"

[mrspettyfer]

Please post any discussion related to this episode in this thread.

I have something I'd like to discuss, to see what you all think. I personally was baffled that Katara was so angry at Zuko after he joined Azula. She made it clear she felt "betrayed" but how could he betray her when he wasn't on her side?

This is what actually lead me to believe that something is there between the two of them. Otherwise, I don't see how she could have gotten so worked up. He wasn't her ally, even after their bonding moment in the cave. She had no real reason to believe he "had changed" or was joining her side. None at all.

Even more curiously, she didn't take the route I expected--I expected her bitter and anger toward him to be because she blamed him for Aang's death. But that doesn't seem to be the case. When she yells at Zuko, she doesn't even mention Aang. It's clear what he did affected her personally. And I couldn't help but wonder...why?

"I was the first person to trust you, remember? Back in Ba Sing Se. But you turned around and betrayed me."

[advocaat]

I always understood her anger as the hurt feelings from opening up to someone and thinking you've connected with them on a deeper level and then finding out it all meant nothing to them. She must've thought he was just using her, the way Jet used her, and nobody likes feeling that way. Her hurt feelings here would've reinforced her notion about the Fire Nation being full of horrible people who just abuse and take with no regard for others.

Moreover, a person's trust can only take so many hits, and Jet already used up a lot of them. I'm sure Katara was berating herself for "making the same mistake" with Zuko. Add her "misplaced" trust for Hama to the mix, and I think Katara was feeling pretty jaded by the time Zuko showed up again.

[mrspettyfer]

I suppose I should rephrase. Katara's anger made sense to me. It was just how angry she got that baffled me. She was really, really holding a grudge. I thought it was a little too much to be honest. I think she was probably more angry at herself than Zuko, angry she didn't see it coming. I mean I saw it coming, lmao but apparently she didn't. Katara is pretty naive by nature though.

What interests me, actually, is the fact that the show (and a lot of fans) gloss right over the fact that Zuko could have felt just as betrayed and hurt during that scene.

I thought the same thing! And I've read your oneshot before!! Didn't put two and two together until now I guess, haha. I can see how Zuko would feel betrayed a little too. I think, and I've mentioned this before, that the only way for Zuko to join the group in that episode and remain in character would have been if Katara had had more time and healed his scar. I just can't imagine he would be able to attack the person who lifted that burden.

[heirofseaandfire]

I think part of it too is her optimism (or naivete, depending on your opinion) in wanting to believe that there is good inside of everyone.
After having that heart-felt discussion with Zuko about their mothers and the hurt the Fire Nation has caused them, she stops seeing him as 'the face of the enemy'- essentially, she stops seeing him as the face of the Fire Nation. She begins to understand him and, maybe like Aang, thinks if things had been different, they might have been friends.

So when he ultimately sides with Azula, all that is thrown back in her face. After all the pain he's been through, he's still choosing them. He's choosing to become one of them.

And I think that really hurts Katara because no matter how much pain she's experienced at the hands of the Fire Nation, she wouldn't wish that on others. And I think that that's how she views Zuko's decision- he is choosing to be her enemy. He is choosing to harm Aang and all her hopes for peace.

So I think that's why she also holds a grudge for so long. She needs Zuko to prove her wrong- that there is good inside him, that the feelings they shared in the catacombs were real, that he's not going to be the 'face of the enemy' and hurt people for his own gain anymore.

And I think Zuko takes her acceptance of him so seriously because he needs to be that person. That person who is just and honorable. Who is hurt and broken and scarred but wants the best for his people. Who is willing to help the Avatar restore balance. Who isn't the sum of his past mistakes.
I think he wants her to trust him because he wants to be that side of himself that is trustworthy.

[mrspettyfer]

That said, I can't help but feel the actual 'grudge' got dragged out longer for the sake of having the Southern Raiders episode. I also feel that there was something more between those two.

That's what I think as well. I mean just logically, to me, it would have made sense for Katara to forgive Zuko after the boiling rock. But if they were so bent up on TSR, than that episode should have came before because it seems really odd to me that Katara trusted Zuko enough to let Aang go with him to face the dragons, and then saw that he helped her brother save her father. Then to have her be all pissy again in TSR.

It's like.."Okay, I just threatend to end your life if you hurt Aang, but I'm going to let you two go off to face dragons together. You both come back safe and sound, and then you help my brother save my father from prison, along with his girlfriend. Cool, I don't trust you."

Lmao like what? The order of the "Zuko episodes" just seemed off to me, with TSR being last.

And see, that grudge is what made me believe there had to be something else going on there too. That kind of effect that Zuko had on Katara just did not scream platonic to me. You know what I mean? Aang, who was the one who really suffered from Zuko's pursuit, forgave him pretty easily. Katara holds that grudge like a lifeline. The only sense I could come up with was that maybe in the caves she saw something more, something that could eventually lead to romantic interest.

Otherwise, I just felt like that grudge wasn't necessary. I feel like I'm explaining this badly haha.

[advocaat]

I totally get what you're saying. Katara's behavior really is strange, and I do think it's suggestive of deeper feelings. She doesn't act like a protective friend so much as a woman scorned. Aang's safety was her excuse, and certainly a part of the issue, but it seemed like her real problem with Zuko was entirely more personal.

[dynamojacks]

Nov 14, 2012 2:41:34 GMT -6 @boogum said:

I wonder if it was just a 'release' thing, actually. Katara has been holding all of that bitterness inside her for years, because she can't share that with her family or Aang and the others. It's a festering hate that, if revealed, would spoil the perfect image they (and she) have created for her. But then Zuko comes along (and he is Fire Nation, and someone who 'betrayed' her), so she can use him like her scapegoat. She can pour all her frustration into him, because deep down she actually knows that it is safe to do so. Zuko was never going to retaliate; he was not going to hurt her, and I think a part of her actually understood that.

I'm not sure if this is making any sense, but I can certainly see why Katara would continue to beat Zuko down at any chance if she was actually using him as a way to vent her hurt and anger. It might not even be consciously done, but I do find it difficult to believe that she truly thought Zuko was going to hurt them once he came back with Aang from the Sun Warriors.

Ab-so-lutely this. Even when Aang suggests the Fire Nation people and all others can be friends, she still has trouble letting go of the hurt the FN has caused. Aang, he's had the wisdom from his teachers, the links to his past through his meditation and his guru, and has had the luxury of growing up in peacetime. Letting go came easier to him than it did to Katara. Katara hasn't, ergo her experiences are different. Ditto Zuko- he was at the very top of it, being the Prince, so he was the perfect vessel for her unspent anger. So far all she's been able to do is bottle and accept all the injustice.
And Zuko, well, he knows how guilty his people (and he for that matter) are. So he doesn't contradict her or try to make excuses. He just lets her crawl out of that bitter shell, no matter how many blows he takes from her while she does so. It's all about the release.
Maybe she was toying with him subconsciously. I'd surmise she definitely WASN'T conscious of it. If she was, I think she would be trying to be more reasonable a la her mothermode. But she still had reservations she wasn't aware of with Zuko, and it wasn't just his betrayal. So she let this other side come out, the one that she'd been (also subconsciously) been working to suppress.
..Ah tits. This isn't about CoD anymore.

[heirofseaandfire]

Nov 14, 2012 2:41:34 GMT -6 @boogum said:

I wonder if it was just a 'release' thing, actually. Katara has been holding all of that bitterness inside her for years, because she can't share that with her family or Aang and the others. It's a festering hate that, if revealed, would spoil the perfect image they (and she) have created for her. But then Zuko comes along (and he is Fire Nation, and someone who 'betrayed' her), so she can use him like her scapegoat. She can pour all her frustration into him, because deep down she actually knows that it is safe to do so. Zuko was never going to retaliate; he was not going to hurt her, and I think a part of her actually understood that.

This! This! This! I thought this too, and it's actually something that I like about Zutara vs. Kataang.
Aang, as the Avatar, is Katara's hope. He's all her dreams come true regarding the restoration of peace and balance for the world.

But Zuko... she has to work on her relationship with him. There's a lot that she has to forgive him (personally) for, and there are a lot of prejudices towards the Fire Nation that she projects on to him that she needs to let go of. And seeing all that unfold was so beautiful.

Aang may be Katara's hope, but Katara's relationship with Zuko made her have to work and take ownership of the ideals Aang so easily symbolized for her and apply them to her own life. Her relationship with Zuko is a metaphor for the hope and balance that the Avatar was meant to bring to the world.

And THAT is why I'm Zutara. All day, every day.

[makegnomemistake]

Nov 12, 2012 2:53:26 GMT -6 @boogum said:

Exactly what I was going to say, advocaat. I think it's pretty easy to see why Katara feels betrayed and why she gets so upset on a personal level. What interests me, actually, is the fact that the show (and a lot of fans) gloss right over the fact that Zuko could have felt just as betrayed and hurt during that scene.

...

If you think about what that scar means to him and how much it has impacted his self-esteem (because we know in The Beach episode what he really thinks of that scar on a physical/aesthetic level), Katara offering him that hope and then snatching it away the moment Aang enters the catacombs is a huge blow. Aang is the reason that Zuko can't return home, and now suddenly Aang is also the reason that Katara isn't even going to try to heal him.

It's a heartbreaking moment, but I think it really does show just why he would have been feeling less inclined to listen to his uncle. It's hard to think of taking a gamble when the easy option is right in front of you - especially after having something that would have clearly meant a lot to him was suddenly denied.

I totally agree about this point. I love your one shot ("..the little sparrowkeet discovered that its wings had been twisted one too many times" …Guh, that line really gets me…), and I've read a few others that have addressed this issue from Zuko's POV, such as Cadmos' Left Behind.

Nov 14, 2012 11:35:11 GMT -6 heirofseaandfire said:

Aang, as the Avatar, is Katara's hope. He's all her dreams come true regarding the restoration of peace and balance for the world.

But Zuko... she has to work on her relationship with him. There's a lot that she has to forgive him (personally) for, and there are a lot of prejudices towards the Fire Nation that she projects on to him that she needs to let go of. And seeing all that unfold was so beautiful.

Aang may be Katara's hope, but Katara's relationship with Zuko made her have to work and take ownership of the ideals Aang so easily symbolized for her and apply them to her own life. Her relationship with Zuko is a metaphor for the hope and balance that the Avatar was meant to bring to the world.

Very eloquently stated! Zuko and Katara really do influence each other quite a bit. As you and everybody else have stated here and in other threads, in many ways they challenge each other to be better. Better benders (hello fight at the spirit oasis which is the first time they're on equal footing, and practically every other fight they have against or alongside each other since), and in S3, better people (Zuko's earnestness in setting things right with Katara and become someone she can forgive and befriend, and Zuko's role in TSR challenging Katara to really deal with her anger, bitterness, guilt and conflicted feelings about forgiveness.)

[nami]

I have to admit, I was thrown when Katara just suddenly lashed out, but when I thought about how much she invested in him when they had that tiny little moment in the cave, I too have to admit, I would have been quite furious with him. It hurts a lot to be betrayed. She opened her heart to him, and he threw fire on it. Plus, she was probably thinking that her kindness would help him make a good choice. Sadly, Iroh's kindness didn't seem to penetrate his thick skull, either.

What got me more than anything was when Zuko decided to team back up with Azula. I was like; "Wait, you mean your CRAZY sister who tried to capture/kill you MULTIPLY times? And she also kinda, sorta hates you and makes fun of you?" Hmm, this is such a hard decision: go back to the family who hates me or team up with a girl who promised to help me?

I understand that he wanted to make his father proud, I just wish I could have told him that all that effort was being wasted. If his dad didn't care before, there was very little Zuko could do to make him proud. Also, Zuko probably wanted to feel like a prince again, so he chose Azula over Katara. Understandable, we like to stick to the dangers we know, instead of the dangers we don't. His feelings for Katara were too strong! They scared him. *cough* >_>