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Post by Admin on Nov 11, 2012 20:16:30 GMT -6
Discuss about this episode here. Any controversy you've been hearing about what happened in it?
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Post by mrspettyfer on Nov 11, 2012 20:20:37 GMT -6
I've seen a lot of people turn this into Zuko versus Aang, which bothers me because the episode is really about Katara. The parallel is how she will never forgive Yon Rha, but she is ready to forgive Zuko. But I always thought this episode was about how Katara needed to forgive herself.
I don't like the way some people do pin Zuko against Aang. To me, they both had decent points. Killing Yon Rha wouldn't bring her mother back. But I don't think Aang had any right to tell Katara she needed to forgive him. Just like no one was expecting him to forgive the sandbenders for taking Appa, or the men who destroyed his temple. Zuko, to me, understood Katara more in the long run since he can directly relate to what she's feeling. Both are, essentially, the reason they both lost their mother. Ursa had to leave for Zuko, while Kya died protecting Katara.
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Post by advocaat on Nov 11, 2012 20:35:46 GMT -6
I completely disagree with the idea of Katara forgiving Yon Rha. The man killed her mother and did absolutely nothing to repent for it. Why should he be forgiven? Sure, it's war and he had orders, but if someone walked up and put a knife in your dad's back and said "sorry, just doing my job" would you forgive them? I don't think killing Yon Rha was the answer, and I'm glad Katara didn't do it, but forgiving him? Just, no.
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Post by mrspettyfer on Nov 11, 2012 20:41:38 GMT -6
^Agreed. Aang expecting her to do that was too much. I could understand if he tried to get her to forgive HERSELF, but asking her to forgive the man who killed her mother was just too much. [And he sounded like a hypocrite, lmao]
I think Katara needed to let it go, which is not the same thing as forgiving.
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Post by mrspettyfer on Nov 12, 2012 1:40:15 GMT -6
I do wonder what made her forgive Zuko. I kind of feel like they just wanted to do that episode, so they held Katara's grudge until then. To me, it would have made more sense for Katara to forgive Zuko after he helped rescue her dad. I think TSR should have happened before the boiling rock, actually. But perhaps she decides to forgive him because of his support. Or maybe because she was learning to let go of the past, including her past with Zuko. I'd say she trusted Zuko before that episode, otherwise she'd never let him go off with Aang to face the dragons, but she was too bitter and angry at him still to admit it. Which brings me to another question..which I'll post in a new thread.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 12, 2012 1:52:31 GMT -6
I should be sleeping, but I thought I'd add my two cents.
Of course I agree with everyone here. This episode was about Katara, not Aang vs Zuko. If anything, Aang and Zuko sort of represented her conflicting emotions. She knew that if this was someone else, like Aang trying to kill the Sandbenders who took Appa, that she would try to convince that person that revenge - killing someone - wasn't the answer. It wouldn't bring that person satisfaction. But since this had everything to do with her and the guilt she felt for her mother's death, which she believed to be partly her fault, she listened to that other voice, Zuko's. Zuko was telling her want she wanted to hear - not because he was condoning murder but because he understood her loss and he understood her guilt. Both knew that there had to be a confrontation if there was to be any sort of resolution, and Aang's way was not going to bring her the immediate satisfaction she needed.
So she ignored the Aang on her right shoulder and listened to the Zuko on her left. Again, both boys had a point; both were neither right nor wrong. But this wasn't about them. It was about Katara and what she needed. She needed a purge, a catharsis, and while she couldn't kill Yon Rha she couldn't forgive him either. But by doing this, by facing her fears, her guilt, her anger and resentment, she had come to realise that this was a journey of understanding. The real person she needed to confront and forgive was herself, and by doing that she was able to forgive Zuko too.
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Post by mrspettyfer on Nov 12, 2012 2:02:11 GMT -6
Here's some food for thought.
Do you think, if ATLA was not on Nick, Katara would have killed Yon Rha? Because the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't be allowed to show a main "hero" murder someone in cold blood on Nick. Villains can get away with it more, but not so much the good guys. That's how I knew Katara wouldn't do it, and how I knew Aang would find a loophole around killing Ozai. Because it would never be allowed.
I've often wondered if Katara's character would have done it had Bryke not had to worry about ratings.
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vassilissa
Non-Bender
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Posts: 40
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Post by vassilissa on Nov 12, 2012 9:58:37 GMT -6
I think it is always disappointing when a female character is just projected in the light of her fanon/canon love interest. It happens so often in all the fandoms, I think the only main female protagonist who has ever been graced partially from this horrible fate was actually Hermione Granger from Harry Potter. I'm so sad and disappointed when Katara is just used as a prop for the shipping preference couple. And again after watching this episode I found myself thinking it is a pity this show was broadcast on Nick,this episode could have been even more darker than this.
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chromeknickers
Bender
I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am!
Posts: 216
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Post by chromeknickers on Nov 12, 2012 10:41:27 GMT -6
Lia, was that quote taken from Unrequited? It seems familiar to me. I enjoyed it very much, though. Thanks for that! And I completely agree with what you said. ^_^ Hehe, yeah. I just didn't feel the need to reference it. It kinda of sums up my thoughts best - that TSR was not about revenge but forgiveness; forgiveness of herself and forgiveness of Zuko. I've often wondered if Katara's character would have done it had Bryke not had to worry about ratings. I agree with Kim. Regardless of it being a kid's show, at that point in her life and with her character, she couldn't have brought herself to take someone's life on purpose. In all honesty, I think the only reason that could make someone like Katara kill would be self-defence or to protect her children. Since she's a child herself at this point, I can't see her living well with making such a choice, even if Yon Rha 'deserved' it. Katara would just be so broken afterwards. As I said in my previous post, this episode was all about Katara confronting her tormentor (Yon Rha) and her guilt and finding a way to let go. Again, like Kim said, "the important thing was getting closure, and she got that without having to get her hands dirty".
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Post by dynamojacks on Nov 12, 2012 16:16:54 GMT -6
Heavens. I made two huge rants on this subject before..
But yeah, the issue I have in particular is the simplifying of Zuko's character to the 'devil on Katara's shoulder' and Aang being the 'angel'. Apparently that's the core dynamic Bryke were going for (according to the commentary, but I don't know firsthand), which really ruins it. Thankfully they pulled THAT off really badly, so the dimensions of the characters are kept in place. But the way people were construeing it... AURGH NO.
Aang's character being 'reduced to preachy know-it-all' is basically what it WAS. They didn't explore the dimensions of what he was saying (that blather about forgiveness was a bit ham-handed to say the least, they could have gone for a 'mercy' sort of angle instead..), they just expected Katara to take it at face value because he understands the pain 'to some degree'. Which means everyone was going off their rocker at Katara for her 'you wouldn't understand' remark.
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